Poor Billy Boy's
[ Back ] [ Home ] [ Next ]

INTERVIEW OF ALLEN R. CHAFFIN 6-5-96 by CHRIS MORRIS

RG   We'll try to make this as brief as possible.  Can you uh tell us uh what happened
	tonight at your place?
AC   Well about 9:30 or 10:00 I had gone to sleep and they were going up to be with
	Terry. I had got up about 4:30 or 5:00 so I was sleepy.  I wanted to sleep.  He had
	come down about 9:30 and Terry had come in and woke me up and wanted me to get
	up and drink some whiskey.  I didn't want no whiskey but I got up and drank a beer. 
	Billy and Kim were kinda arguing you know and Terry told me, said I don't want him
	mistreating her.  I said well he's not.  he's not mistreating her.
RG   You know what they were arguing about
AC   Oh just nit picky stuff they always argue about.  So we're sittin there and I helped
	him get up; he was drunker 'n hell I thought he was leavin and he goes in there and
	goes in the bedroom and the next thing I know Kim's callin me they're fightin.  I go in
	there, I grab hold of him by the arm and say come on man you know how they are.  We
	don't want no fighting around here and say what's going on?  He starts in he's going to
	whip my butt and Billy gets up and gets between us and gets him outside and that
	was when I went in and got the 22 and stuck it in the corner of the kitchen cause
	there ain't nobody gonna beat on my or kill me and I got a hernia on that so then uhm
	the outside fight began right there and I'm tellin him go home come back tomorrow
	when you're sober and finally he hit Billy three or four good times and finally Billy got
	up and come in the house and shut the door and shut the front door and the next
	thing I know I'm in the living room and the back door kicks in and the next thing I
	know I turn around and Billy's standing there shooting and I can't see him I mean
	Terry so I don't know because of the way the house is and from then on everything
	just gets kinda fuzzy cause boy it was mass confusion I didn't even see him take the
	gun outside I don't know what he did with it he did say he's a man he'd take his
	punishment

Note:  Al confirms that Terry was drunker 'n Hell.

RG   Where was Billy when he was shooting
AC   He was standing right by the kitchen door going into the what would you call it,
	the hallway
RB   Did you turn your back to the kitchen
AC   yes sir
RG   you couldn't see Terry
AC   No but I was there for second I went into the living room
RG   Anything been said?
AC   The only thing I turned around and saw the gun I said Billy no and about that time
	he shot
RG   Was Billy saying anything to him?
AC   uh just before that he was telling him to get out and go home and he did say he
	wasn't going to come in here and beat on nobody.  I think mainly what he was trying
	to do was protect me cause there ain't no way I can fight him.  I just I couldn't
	understand the whole thing anyway cause he always got along with the guy.   He always
	been friendly basically.  Anymore than that I don't know.

Note:  Billy did not threaten Terry.  He was protecting Al and Al says he brought the
gun out to protect himself (Al) not to help Billy get loose.

RG   Before Billy pushed him out the first time, you got involved in that?
AC   They were laying on the bedroom floor.  He had Billy down.  I went in and
	grabbed him by the arm and tried to pull him up.  I told him get out of here and go
	home.  We don't fight here and when we're down at Billy's mother and all them fight
	all the time and that was one of the main rules we had.  There wasn't going to be no
	fighting and arguing.  Anybody did was supposed to get out and go home.  So much
	for that.

Note:  Billy moved from my mother's house because he hated all the fighting.

RG   When you cane in the bedroom and they were fighting did you not have the gun
	in your hand?
AC   I had a gun when I walked in there but uh
RG   How did you have it?
AC   Just holding it I guess cause I walked back in and set that down in the kitchen
RG   By the stock or what part of the gun did you hold?
AC   The fore stock.
RG   What were your intentions then?
AC   I just wanted him to see the damn thing uh just uh
RG   Trying to break it up?
AC   That's it.  Uh I;m scared to death for Billy.  He didn't need anything like that one
	hit in that. One hit in the hernia and I'm dead.

Al was protecting Billy when he brought in the gun because Terry was crazy.

AC   He was sittin on top of him.  He just on the chest.  I grabbed him by the arm tried
	to get him up and told him to go on and go home.  Then I went and got the gun and
	brought it in there and I grabbed him by the arm again and he wouldn't do it and then
	I put the gun up and by that time they were up
RG  What was being said during this time?
AC   He just kept saying uh I can whip both of you there ain't nobody gonna mistreat a
	woman and hell, I ain't said nothin to Kim.  Kim and I get along great, you know, and
	Billy and him she was trying to tell him and nothing wrong and uh he just went off his
	rocker somehow or another I don't uh and then right at the last
RG   And then excuse me go on
AC   And then right there at the last minute Billy went berserk was the way it seemed
	to me
RG   Were there any threats made besides he was gonna whip your ass?
AC   No, sir.

RG   Did he run at him as he was shooting?  What happened?
AC   He run towards him once.
RG   While he was shooting?
AC   No.  Seemed to me like it was after he got through shooting.  When he come
	back in there and he was waving the gun all around and I don't eve know what he
	said.
RG   Did Billy move from where he was standing from the first shot to the last shot? 
	Did he ever move?
AC   No.  Not that I can think of.

Al confirms that Bill did not chase after Terry, shooting at him.

RG   Did he ever threaten Terry?
AC   Nah.  Till then, I hadn't thought anything about that gun.  Next thing I know, the
	door broke open, I turned around, Billy got the gun and started shooting and I was
	right there on the steps.  I hadn't thought about that gun.  It wouldn't a done me no
	good anyway, not the way he was.

RG   Now, let's get back to what we just talked about.  Your friend has already
	confessed to killing a man.
AC   Yes, he did and I understand that and I kinda hate to think about it.
RG   You're not, you're not creating a problem if he moved during the shooting.
AC   I can't say he did cause I can't remember him doing it and that is the God's
	truth.  I just don't, if he did, I just don't remember it.
RG   Look.  That's no problem. I think in some way you're trying to help.  It's hard for
	me to understand now but you're standing right behind a man who shoots ten times. 
	Now, even rapid fire, that takes some time.
AC   I can't understand how...
RG   How can a person stand behind a man who's shooting a rifle at another person
	and not know whether or not that man moves?
AC   I just, I'm just dumbfounded.  I don't, you know, I just uh I never been around a
	shooting.  I don't
RG   I understand that
AC   and uh, I don't see the uh uh I just don't remember that if he did, he did.  I just
	don't remember.  I'll take a lie detector test or anything, but I just can't I just can't I
	don't remember.

Note how he's trying to confuse Al.

RG   Maybe we have to hold things over for a while till we get some more answers.
AC   I wish I could think of everything right now so we could just get it over with.

Now,  RG is threatening to hold Al if he doesn't answer the way he wants him to.

RG   What if I told you he told me that he said "I'll kill you, you son of a bitch".  What
	if I told you that I had that on his statement that was taken at the scene?
AC   That part really wouldn't make much difference because I really didn't honestly
	and truly didn't hear that. 

RG   Well, Allen.  I want to give you some thought so you can think clear.
AC   I'm trying to.
RG   The biggest part of this right now what you do right now - the biggest part of
	this that should tell you that before this is over, it's all going to be out one way or the
	other. Don't get yourself caught up.
AC   I don't want to because I don't I don't want to be in any kind of trouble
	whatsoever anyhow and I don't I don't want to hide anything for Billy and I honestly
	don't remember him saying that.  Swear to God, I don't.
RG   That's one little item.  There's several things here that's not working out, Al.  I'm
	telling you now.  All I'm telling you now, listen, is all those kinda things I know that
	much.
AC   I know
RG   I know you can figure that out
AC   I know that
RG   But you've already done the biggest part of it's a done deal.  The rest of it is
	gonna come out.  Don't get yourself caught up. You already have a couple of times
	cause I know already.  Here's your opportunity because I'm gong to tell you Al, look at
	me partner.  You can go on with this investigation and you knowingly just like these
	couple of things you remembered here recently and withheld it and we can prove it.
AC   I know
RG   You're gonna get yourself in deep.
AC   I was good.  I withheld that one part.
RG   Now think about it.
AC   That's what I'm trying to tell you the truth.  That's the honest and swear to God
	I didn't I don't know that I heard him say that.  I just and as far as moving, I honestly
	can't say I just it's not computing.  Like I say, in the I'm about to blow through one of
	the main things.  I did say like I say I've told him shortly I told him you

Al is getting really nervous because RG is threatening him with prosecution.

RG   Allen, you made a mistake like that, you held back stuff and you know you did
	and I'm not going to sit here and play games with you all night.  Your opportunity's
	right now.  If you don't want to tell us the truth, we need to shut this tape off and we'll
	just go from there and I'm not going to sit here anymore and listen to you like that
	because you don't have to lie to us.
AC   I'm not trying to lie.
RG   I understand that you're going through a lot but you're leaving the main
	ingredient out and you know it and I know it and I'm running out of patience and so
	are you so it's time to draw lines here and you either come across now or we draw
	lines and we go from there.

RG   Here just look at me now.  I'm fixing to be done with you. You know what we're
	talking about here.
AC   I I'm I'm trying
RG   It's called Accessory to Murder.
AC   I'm not accessory to nothing.  I honestly, I'm trying to think.
RG   Hold your horses now.  I'm done with you.

More threats.

Towards the end of the interview:

This shows what type of person Terry (the deceased) was:
RA   Why did the Mother come down (to the cabin) in the first place?
AC   Kim had gone to, I had sent Kim earlier to go get the mother and she said she
	didn't.
RA   Why?
AC   Because, from what I'd heard before, the mother's the only one who can handle
	him when he gets that way but he was telling us a story a couple weeks ago about
	being in some bar in Kansas or something.  They kept trying to get him to leave and
	said he wouldn't do it and finally they tried to call his mother and as luck would have
	it, she walked in the door and she took him out.  He was telling the story out in the
	boat and laughing about it.  Be the only thing I can think of.  Evidently his mother can
	handle him.  I sent Kim to get her but she said she didn't go over there.  Said she just
	run down to the water and hollered up there.

CM   Did you think Billy was justified in shooting Terry?
AC   I think he was justified in shooting him.
CM   Why do you think he was justified in shooting him?
AC   The man broke into our home.  He had every intent of hurting somebody.
CM   How do you know that?
AC   huh?
CM   Let me ask , yes, why do you think that?
AC   The fight wouldn't have started in the first place if he didn't have an intent to
	 hurt somebody.  Billy didn't start the fight.

RA   Have there been any threats towards you?
AC   The deputy took me down there to get my vehicle.  I did go inside to get my
	clothes and food and microsporin and shit like that and got the dogs and the like, I
	say.  I got away from there cause I thought way if it don't warm up, it won't climb out
	of there.  The deputy did say he couldn't stay there with me but he would wait at the
	top for a little bit.  By the time I got up there, he was gone.  Bullshit.  I wish the hell
	he'd a stayed.  O.k.  You come up the hill out of there, past Gary and Terry's trailer. 
	You gotta come on around one little trail goes down to the water and as you come on
	around, there's part of the road that goes down to where the mother lives.
RA   Talking about the outside road?
AC   When I come around, she come flying around in a green Ford pickup and tried
	to hit me.  Well, I dodged her.  As I come on around the pass, the stepfather come up
	in a white Dodge.  He come up and followed me and passed me and stopped the
	truck;  blocked the roadd.  Jumped out and come back and said "You ought to be in
	jail, you son of a bitch.  Get out of the fucking car."  I punched it.  Went through the
	pasture and left.  They chassed me half way to...
RA   Did you see or hear a weapon?
AC   I didn't see one at that time.
RA   What kind of people are these?
AC   I think they're crazy. I'm scared to death of them.
RA   Do you know of them to hurt people or beat people up or insult people?
AC   Just different stories I've heard that they're too wild for me.

Al states clearly what kind of people the whole family is.

[ Back ] [ Home ] [ Next ]